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The Truth Behind Streaming Internet Radio in South Africa

Not everything is as it seems. But if you read this research report on the growth of Internet Radio in South Africa, I’ll take you behind the smoke and mirrors and allow you to experience some of the stink.

Put it this way, there’s a lot of nonsense being spread, and I cut through to the truth.

 

Update: I have been served with legal papers requesting me to take down this post by around 20:30. Here’s where you can see them.

84 replies on “The Truth Behind Streaming Internet Radio in South Africa”

I knew it. Never been a fan of 2OV, they are full of shit about various things and I suspected they were very wrong about how many people listen to their online radio station.

As for Ballz, they are not the dogs nuts as they think they are.

Thanks for the info man.

It is VERY awkward for Darren. Can’t stick to the facts, it seems. This might just blow up in their faces. Ballz all over the wallz.

Apparently Netdynamix are giving a formal reply soon. They are behind all of the listenership figures for these internet stations and many others. They have a lot to answer for if this report is true. But we should wait to hear from them before we judge.

I don’t agree with the correlation between social media and listenership – that never really proves much… BUT, I do agree that the stats are surely inflated and I agree that there just isn’t that kind of option. Terrestrial radio figures are taken over 7 days… not at any given moment. Streaming radio will overtake broadcast… but not yet. There are also international listeners to take into account. But it’s just not tens of thousands at any given time. As much as Just Plain may like to be dogmatic about it, it’s unfortunately just not the case. Their YouTube stats are also not much to boast about unless it’s a girl in a bikini

Also, the issue here is not YouTbue stats. Then they might as well add stats of people greeting them on the street while shopping for chino’s. The document focusses on the stats given by the server that connects the users, if I understand the article right.

@Internet Aware I agree, the social media stats don’t mean too much. It was just one portion of the research that supports my actual technical facts. Darren Scott chose to focus on the social media stuff, but he didn’t realize that I’m not actually a moron and I never based my argument on the social media portion. I don’t think he actually read the whole paper.

Hope you have some money handy for lawyers fees my friend. You have not thought about this properly and you are about to get nailed. You have defamed people without asking for them to submit their side before publication and your findings/accusations are incorrect. This is the real world where people are accountable. We will pray for you.

I don’t understand how the reference to their YouTube video view statistics helped their case? 688 average views per video is not something to brag about!

Using the very same source that you quoted in your article, you seem to have conveniently left out the bit where, and I quote, “World Wide Worx MD Arthur Goldstuck showed in his Internet Access in South Africa research report that a single ADSL line typically connects multiple users to the Internet in the small and medium size business environment, explaining why only 800,000 ADSL lines account for over 50% of people accessing the Internet in SA. Goldstuck’s research showed that 23% of small business ADSL lines connect an average of between 5 and 20 additional people per ADSL connection to the Internet.” http://mybroadband.co.za/news/broadband/28886-internet-access-in-sa-most-used-connections-revealed.html

Now it if the total internet users in SA is at 6.8 million as at Dec 2011 http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats1.htm#africa that means that the 800,000 ADSL lines account for 3.4 million users. It should also be noted that of the total 6.8 million, only 5 million are Facebook users. So, given these figures, the “130 000 listeners on only 3 stations” is a drop in the ocean.

For someone who is making accusations about people “misquoting” figures, you’re not too bad at it yourself! For a “32 year old IT Specialist with 12 years professional experience in enterprise environments to compliment 30 years of computing” your math sucks!

I agree with Goodluck above – you’ve made a big mistake here and you’re going to get nailed.

@Holes We can speculate on internet usage til we’re blue in the face. The point is the stats published to media do not match the stats published by the actual streaming server itself. If I’m wrong, proof can be provided and I will be shamed and will probably never work in IT again. I see no reason to involve lawyers.

@Goodluck: perhaps you’d care to present a counter-argument rather than religious blessings? This paper is an opinion, backed by pretty solid research. A blog is not a newspaper and, even if it were, is not obliged to seek comment from those it criticises. Do you imagine yourself to be living inside All The President’s Men?

hey burningpaper – funnily enough I sent something through and dewberry refuses to publish the comment. what is the point of all this if he is censoring debate?

So you’re leaving out my argument for debate? Just like that. You’re in search of “the truth” and you’re blocking my comments that poke holes in your argument? HAH! The hypocrisy and irony is too much!

“If I’m wrong, proof can be provided” you say?

But you don’t allow comments through?

HAHAHA!!

The comment threading is not working properly. Your comment is not blocked. It was sent for review because it looked like spam.

@Goodluck If you want to talk about accountability: I published this on my website, in my name, with all my contact details. That’s called “being accountable”.

Very one-sided argument this by the looks of things.

And then when does my ‘reviewed’ comment appear here?

There are no swear words. It is a response. Exactly what blogs are for. Especially blog posts like this.

Who cares how the social media and woeful 600 views on their video compare? Their server infrastructure and figures published by Shoutcast piss in their face. You can’t get past that, no matter how cocky and demeaning you are on a telephone call with your uneducated little group of supporters in the background.

Comments from “Goodluck” and “Holes in your story..” are obviously from okes involved with these stations. I doubt anybody in South Africa would defend a radio station brand like that.

@Holes – scroll up. I think everyone but yourself sees the comment. Maybe you’re too angry to think straight.

Both Seth and Darren would love their listenership to be as inflated as their gigantic egos. Why? Brings in advertising cash.

If anyone can be sued, it’s Seth and Darren by their advertisers for giving out false figures, so before telling the author here to get a lawyer, I would advise any advertiser who has spent money on ANY of the stations mentioned to go and seek legal recourse unless these muppets can back up their claims, just as they are asking the Author to do.

Good article, Shaun. It appears to be really well researched.

At first blush, the numbers are damning (especially those unique listener stats). That means we can be sure of a rebuttal by all the stations involved. I wouldn’t worry too much about lawsuits. This is hardly defamation in the legal sense and unless your figures can be proved to be wrong (and that the numbers in turn led to marked revenue loss by the stations) you’re in the clear. That last bit is a roll of the dice for any business. It means horrible things like audits.

As someone who doesn’t have a dog in this fight, I will say that if what you’ve said cannot be disproved, these stations may have done serious damage to the platform. Not good for them or digital marketing in general.

Nice work, Shaun. I just watched the video of Darren’s call to you and am really disappointed with his attitude. He doesn’t have a clue about tech stuff but will obviously try to crush you as they desperately need the advertisers to keep them alive.

A quick look at the Ustream figures during their bikini weather says it all. He brought up Youtube too, and those stats are awful. Even when they make bimbos prance around in bikini’s, the numbers are shockingly low (4k views is not ‘viral’).

They seem to be doing a good job as a station and the sports interviews are great. I’ve always been a fan of Darren and respect their efforts, but where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Their investors wont see a return for a long time..

Apparently netdynamix are consulting their lawyers this morning and putting together a defamation case as well as evidence destroying this entire report, as well as the writer’s incorrect methods used.

I look forward to an informed technical response. I am surprised that it will take them such a long time to compile a response – surely they should be able to publish what they have now?

I also feel there is no need to include lawyers if they have nothing to hide.

@Holes in your story & his/her comment about sharing of internet links – If you look at the SHOUTcast D.N.A.S statistics, it shows the number of listeners and in brackets the number of unique listeners, meaning the system factors in multiple connections coming from a shared IP (unless I understand it incorrectly).

Shaun why would they NOT involve lawyers, if they believe your accusations are incorrect and you accused them publicly of lying and fraudulent behaviour? Any company which is a leader in its industry should and would contact lawyers before responding to such staggering large-scale accusations in such a public manner.

Get real.

Seems Goodluck & Holes work somewhere… Lawyers.. HAHAHA! Classic! So what you saying is, that investigative journalism that uncovers truth or questions is now slanderous and defamatory? Well run for the hills Deborah and Derek because its the end of 3rd Degree and Carte Blanche!

We get it loads on our site too when we say something. Other bloggers come and try put you down and get defensive. Rather pathetic actually.

You right though, i can give you my stats right now. They shouldn’t need time other than the 1 minute to check either Google or their own analytics software.

Well done again!

Probably the most important paragraph in the mybroadband article:

“Haak highlighted that NetDynamix may use a load balancer to spread the demand over multiple servers (and that we hence are only seeing the stats from a single server), but he added that there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case.”

Article here – http://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/53479-shocking-claims-about-online-radio-in-sa.html

How you feeling there, Shaun?

Sorry Enjoy, I don’t spend all day approving comments, but I approve everything that is not spam when I get there.

There is no load balancer, plain and simple.

Here we go again – Shaun Dewberry not publishing any comments that “poke holes” in his story..

@Enjoy, please stick to one handle to keep the conversation easy to follow. Posting as @Holes as well as @Enjoy is poor etiquette.

@Enjoy – you really seem to grasp at things. You are either working for NetDynix, is married to the guy or some family member. What is your technical background? You seem to struggle with a simple conecpt such as comments automatically flagged for moderation on a blog post. Try and be less emotionally attached to one side and work with the evidence that Mr Shaun uses to back his claims. Also go read all the links referenced and try to get an objective understanding of the issue at hand. The whole picture.

I really like Get Your Own Lawyer’s comment earlier. There’s a hell of a lot of ego involved. Seth and Darren have plenty of it between them, and it seems as if the author of this report is trying to show his technical prowess too, as a ‘rockstar’ IT guy and bragging to Darren about YouTube views.

Which is a pity, because this story is important, and he should be commended for bringing it up. He is NOT trying to kill the industry, so Darren and co can relax! Instead, he’s trying to give advertisers the whole picture, in order to level the playing field and make sure they are not getting duped.

2OV make it a part of their brand to brag about their numbers and mention how they are kicking Kfm’s butt, for example, while other online stations don’t. If they all end up with an equal listenership, shouldn’t advertisers approach others too?

That may have been an over-simplification on my part, but they only announce their AS number from one location. And besides, they’re not using Anycast.

In any argument, I’m on the side of the guy who actually uses his real name and is brave enough to stand up for what he believes in.

I encourage the people working for Ballz/NetDynamix commenting here who magically know about legal threats before they happen to to do the same.

There seems to be an awful amount of animosity towards someone merely sharing a thought, opinion and some researched, well meaning information. It’s important to be aware of all sides and it is pretty solid that streaming radio doesn’t have those kinds of numbers. I wish they did, and I wish that both Ballz and 2Ov had those numbers, but they just don’t. Large terrestrial stations often don’t even have numbers like that (when talking figures at any given time – not over 7 days). It’s a good piece.

Well done Shaun. You have done your research and anyone is free to disprove you. Instead of this, however, you are being hit with every logical fallacy used in debates – attacking you, attacking portions of your argument without bearing to the whole, and now threats.

I’m no legal expert, but have a read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Truth If they do go ahead and make defamation charges against you, they will eventually have to prove that your claims were false… something they seem desperate to avoid doing…

Good luck to you, ride it out – if you are certain in your figures, then they cannot prove your claims were wrong and cannot sue you.

I’m not taking any sides as I it can still go both ways. All I know is, there will be a massive shitstorm which ever way it goes.

Can’t wait to see what happens!

The only person who has remained professional and not lost his temper throughout this whole debate is Shaun. That youtube clip on Ballz website with Darren is a joke, Darren comes across as extremely agitated and VERY arrogant with his little giggles. It’s a serious situation and they have been caught out. He just speaks over Shaun all the time and clearly didn’t pay much attention to the facts in Shaun’s article. Why are they all so angry? Because they have inflated the figures and lied to their advertisers. And Shaun did not say the number of facebook / twitter fans directly correlates with the number of listeners. Read it properly you fools. I honestly love this. Well done Shaun. And I completely agree, very poor etiquette @Holes and @Enjoy – really? Man up.

Strong words from the attorneys there.

What’s most interesting is that instead of publishing the “real facts” that would show Dewberry to be a liar, NetDynamics served him with a lawyer’s letter. Surely, that would be far more inexpensive and definitely more effective than resorting to litigation? One can only speculate as to why NetDynamics chose this route.

Still waiting for that response from NetDynamix. Yesterday they let know (via their client, 2Oceansvibe) that they would respond by lunch today. Today is gone. Over. If it was my company, I would be fuming, but if I was 100% honest in my dealings, I would immediately have pulled out my own stats and proof to disproof Shaun’s claims at once. When will they respond? Or are they scrambling around to find out how exactly their own stats work? Something is definately going on in the background. If you are innocent of the claims, why leave your clients in suspense? Why have them deal with the media on the forefront?

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